Overcoming Common Probate Objections and Going For the CLOSE | Motivating Sellers With Distressed Property | Live Q&A Probate Mastermind Real Estate Podcast #303Katt Wagner
In this episode of the Probate Mastermind Podcast, you'll learn how to: Overcome common objections like “Our Attorney Says We Can’t Sell;” motivate sellers who want to sell but are procrastinating anyway; improve contact rates for phone prospecting; segment your lead lists more without losing any opportunities; use letters of intent to solidify commitment, and more!
These episodes are recorded as a live Question and Answer Mastermind with participation from agents and investors across the country. Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe for future episodes!
Episode Topics, Timestamps, and Resources:
Danny is making good progress with his cold calling: He’s having good conversations and building better rapport; the leads are willing to talk about the real estate. However, Danny isn’t ready to push for the face-to-face appointment on the same call. Chad and Bruce share the sales techniques that work for them in closing the call with a listing/acquisition appointment set.
Danny is working with a family that is willing and has the power to sell the property. They’ve gotten their letters of testamentary and selling makes sense to them. However, they keep defaulting back to their attorney, saying the attorney has told them they shouldn’t sell right now. How can Danny overcome this objection? Bruce gives advice on combating the objection without making the personal representative feel combatted.
Christian is working with someone who was initially agreeable to selling for a cash offer or possibly fixing the property and listing it. However, it seems as though she’s gotten cold feet. What can he do to boost her motivation? Jim and Bruce break down the situation further, probate for some possible pain points, and walk Christian through how he can bring the seller’s motivations/pain points to the surface.
Christian is getting hit with the common probate objections: We already have an agent, my attorney’s got it handled, and I’m doing it on my own. The coaches break down the psychology behind each objection and offer techniques for overcoming them.
Kathy asks about leaving voicemails in the instances where a lead doesn’t answer the phone. Bruce discusses call frequency and how to alternate between leaving and not leaving voicemails to get a better chance of callbacks. Kathy and the coaches also discuss if it’s worth calling people who have closed probate and people that keep hanging up the phone.
Tim is an investor using Probate Plus+. Should he be interested in calling probate leads who have no inherited property, or have already listed or sold the property? Bruce discusses how to find opportunities in probate leads without real property as well as how to segment and prioritize your prospecting.
See More: What You Miss by Scrubbing Your Lists: Probate deals that aren’t on probate property lists
Caller shares some recommended reading/listening on sales phraseologies. Bruce shares how to get a PDF version free online and notes that you’ll learn about 27 phrases to use in a sales pitch.
See More: Cheryl Pinto shared a PDF of this book on her site
Caller is brainstorming a way to leverage letters of intent to overcome seller objections where the seller wants to sell, but is leaning on their attorney to solidify the decision. Caller outlines what he would so and Jim shares his experience with doing exactly this with success.
Ways To Catch This Episode of Probate Mastermind:
Transcript: Probate Mastermind Real Estate Podcast Episode #303
A.I. Voice Narration: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Probate Mastermind Podcast. These episodes are recorded live once a week and are hosted by the AllTheLeads.com coaches. Agents, investors, and wholesalers join the coaches each week for everything from marketing tips, sales, psychology, live deal analysis, transaction engineering, advanced real estate strategy and personal development.
You will learn to get more listings, more deals and find financial freedom by listening to these episodes. Be sure to catch show notes at AllTheLeads.com/podcast and join our free Facebook mastermind community: https://facebook.com/groups/AllTheLeadsMastermind
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:00:33] Welcome awesome agents and investors nationwide today is Thursday, November 5th, 2020. And this is Mastermind Podcast number 303. We've got a pretty good, representation in the queue now. So let's go to the first caller this week.
Going For The Close and Getting The Appointment
[00:00:50] First up is phone number ending in one eight five five. We got our frequent flyer, Danny, how you been Danny?
Danny: [00:00:57] Hey guys, I'm doing well, man. How you, how are you guys?
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:01:00] Awesome. Always good to hear from you, always have good content. What can we do for you?
Danny: [00:01:04] Yes, sir. So I've got, two questions here. Hopefully they're not too long. so my first one is, so what advice could you guys give me for getting some appointments set towards the end of my calls?
I've been finding a lot of, just good progress. I'm getting a lot of people, just talking about the house, all the information I need to know. and then I'll call them back, but I'm not like I'm not setting the appointment on the phone with them right then. So what, like tips or advice can you guys give me make sure I get it done right then?
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:01:33] Sure. So Bruce?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:01:34] Yeah, Danny, I would say that you really need to look at this two different ways, depending on how the conversation's going. if I feel like I'm driving hard for the appointment, it's going to damage rapport for us for a potential listing or purchase in six months, then I don't drive really hard for it.
I keep that rapport, there are a lot of times when you have rapport, you have a conversation going, and it's just a matter of. making that transition over into the appointment and on something like that, I'll usually just start off by after several, after a little bit I'll give a very brief recap.
I'd say something like, Danny, It sounds like you guys are definitely going to be doing something with the real estate. And I know that there's two or three other family members involved in the decision process. Could you mind if I make a proposal and get a little bit of a yes.
I learned that a long time ago that asking someone for permission to make a proposal or to be direct with them usually, softened the blow when you actually come out. And so they say yes. And then you say, I think that we should, I think we should meet. And talk a little bit more and maybe let me see the house, or if it's a phone appointment that you're driving for.
So do you mind if I make a proposal, they say yes. And then you say, I really think we should talk again, maybe with you and the other family members, preferably sometime next week. Do you have any availability on Wednesday or Thursday night? Okay. So drive, for that appointment by transitioning, using the recap, recap, combined with, the, request or permission to make a proposal.
Danny: [00:03:04] Okay. Gotcha.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:03:06] The only thing I would add to that, what I would add. that's right spot on Bruce. I would also add to that. if you think a lot of people are just afraid of being sold, they don't have a specific reason why they don't want to get together, except they're afraid you're going to talk them into something that they're not really sure they want to do yet.
So if you sense that, give them permission to not hire you when you get together and say, let's go ahead and get together. Hopefully I'll bring some value. you may decide to do something now, but if you're not ready yet, no problem. no harm, no foul. At least we can get started.
And I can give you a few good tips and when you are ready, hopefully you'll call me back. That goes a long way to diffusing that pressure of being afraid of being sold. If you give them permission to say no, when you get together,
Danny: [00:03:48] Yeah, I definitely that, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:03:51] Yep. That's Danny, that was gold, insight from Jim.
And one thing that you might do in a, if you've given them that permission, you might also come, come out and lay out two or three things that you'd like to cover. So give them a reason for that follow up appointment. If it's on the phone or face to face, give them a reason. there's in the book.
I think it's the book Influence. it talks about how people are much more likely to take you up on what you're asking them to do if you followed up with the word, because, because you don't even have to have a good reason, but just simply giving them a reason for requesting the appointment will increase your conversions.
Danny: [00:04:29] Okay. Okay. I see.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:04:31] Bruce, what would be a good example of that? I think we should get together because there's really nothing to be, there's no risk and there's nothing to be nothing but gain for you to do Or you could almost say anything after the, because,
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:04:41] Yeah. and, of course you do want to have a good reason, but even if your reason is a little bit weak, simply putting the, because out there. So it would sound something like, Danny, I completely understand you're you guys are probably not going to be ready to sell that house tomorrow, as you mentioned, it was probably going to be a month or two before you were really ready to list.
and you haven't talked with your family members, do you mind if I make a proposal. Yeah, Bruce. Okay. Yeah. So I think that we should maybe all three of us get together on a zoom call next Tuesday or Wednesday, because I think that being able to lay out and make sure that everyone is on the same page with what they want, the timing that you have and what steps you actually need to accomplish before you list the house is going to be a good thing.
Does that make sense? So I just laid out two or three things that we would be accomplishing on that call.
Danny: [00:05:35] Okay. Okay. Gotcha. So you drove them, gave them options, give them all the like different things that you get done. And then yeah.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:05:41] If somebody asks me for an appointment, I usually want to know what's the purpose.
Cause there's really, one of my greatest anxieties is showing up to an hour long appointment and my busy schedule and not talking about anything of consequence and a lot of people just want to meet. And so knowing that they might be busy as well, you want to give them a reason, something that you guys are going to accomplish in that followup appointment.
Danny: [00:06:05] Okay. Gotcha.
All right. All right. That was one of them. I had two,
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:06:09] Oh, okay, go ahead. no, you're good.
Handling Objections: We Want To Sell, But Our Attorney Says.... [00:06:11] Danny: [00:06:11] This one's kind of a big one for me because it's getting close to doing like my first close here. I have one person here that is, it's a family too. and they're they want to sell, she's got the letter of testamentary and everything and the ability to sell, but the lawyer is like telling them, no, don't sell yet.
No don't sell yet, but they do want to sell and they have the power to, and, I get on the call with Shaya, with them. and, we're convincing them providing the information and value and they're like, Oh wow. Okay. And, and they definitely want to, but they're, they're defaulting to their attorney, that is saying, don't sell right now.
Is there any advice you could give, give me, or give us, about like other ways to approach them or convince them, or, just like different ways to go at it.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:06:55] So I think that you need to emotionally subconsciously let them off of the hook a little bit by using the techniques that Jim mentioned a little bit ago, where, where were they don't feel like you're trying to convince them or combat that objection. You can, there are lots of ways to go against or combat an objection like that without the person feeling like it.
So in other words, you're going to give them the opportunity to buy, not the opportunity to be sold, not the opportunity to be convinced that their attorney is wrong. for all we know their attorney might be. So I would say something like, yeah, I completely understand that. Could you, could you help me understand some of the reasoning behind holding on, is that gonna be, is that going to be a benefit to you guys?
So give them a chance to maybe convince themselves that it's not beneficial to hold onto the house. So I would follow up with a question like that.
Danny: [00:07:46] Yeah. And that's exactly what we did do on our very last call. I'm calling them again tomorrow, but on our very last call, that is what, almost verbatim, what we did.
And then that's when they were stuck as well. Cause they're, the attorney didn't really provide them with that much information. They relayed it back to us and it just shouldn't. It just didn't make that much sense just in general. Like why would the attorney not really given much information about why they should just not do anything?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:08:12] Would they be willing to do an introduction, maybe an email introduction between you and the attorney so that you could have that conversation with the attorney and see what, what that reason is? I'm assuming that the attorney has a decent reason that even if it's just in his head or her head, I'm assuming that there.
That they have a reason for advising against that. So maybe ask the client for an introduction which really serves multiple purposes. It helps you understand why the attorneys making the recommendation they're making number two, is it helps you build a relationship with another attorney.
Danny: [00:08:43] Yeah,
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:08:43] It's going to in three, it's going to make that transaction go a lot smoother because you're working as a team and not against the attorney. And you might even tell the prospect that it's, Hey, I don't want to work against the attorney. I don't want to undercut them if they have good reasoning.
Could you introduce me?
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:08:59] I was going to preface that Danny, I was going to preface that by saying, you could say to the client, I don't know for sure, but one of the reasons might be he's dealt with realtors in the past and he knows once a realtor gets involved, they're going to be calling them weekly saying, when's it going to close?
When am I going to get my commission check? So he may just be telling you to hold off, to keep realtors, unlike myself from bugging them, mind if I kinda call him and assure him that I'm completely different, I'm going to, I'm going to help him get it done. I'm not gonna harass him to, to close before he can.
Do you mind if I just call them and have that conversation with them and maybe we can, come to an agreement between us.
Danny: [00:09:33] Okay. Gotcha. Oh, I'll definitely try and do that on this call tomorrow. See if I can get in contact with that attorney.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:09:38] Perfect. Awesome. All right, sir. we appreciate you as always.
We got a full queue guys. Good job. Next up is phone number ending in zero three, zero nine. You're up next. Motivating Sellers With Distressed Property [00:09:49]
Christian: [00:09:49] Hey how's it going guys? This Christian here in Chicago. How are you guys?
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:09:52] Great. Christian. How about you?
Christian: [00:09:54] Doing great. I started making some phone calls. I started using you guys' service back in September.
And I was able to win on the first list that I received from what 60 leads on a stern, because our Cook County is divided in three different sections. Therefore, when I made a first phone call, when the first few leads, I was able to get an appointment and she came in into my office, we did whatever we had to do.
She's just not moving forward. She wants to keep it, but the property's in distress. I guess my question to you guys is what will be the best way to approach it, to make her kind of sell the property, which she was leaning more towards. And then I don't know where she decided.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:10:25] Let me ask you, what kind of distress is she behind on the payments?
Is it rundown? Is it vacant?
Christian: [00:10:30] So she and her, she pretty much inherited the property because her mom passed away and she passed away from COVID unfortunately. And therefore she's going through probate right now. She's saying, I didn't want to get to involve and advise any legal. Legal aspect on that, but more importantly, she was interested in selling and she was like, I'm looking to get $60,000 for it if I can just cut my losses, that'd be great.
Or if you can get me a better offer in terms of putting on the market, I'm willing to go that route. And just out of nowhere, she just decided not to move forward. So I don't want to push her, but I know the property won't qualify for a mortgage that I do know. It will be because the amount of work and she doesn't have the money to put into it either.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:11:07] Sure. Sure.
Bruce, I'm sure you have good answers. I, Chad always says find the pain point, I completely understand how you feel. let me ask I mean can you afford to have the house sit there and, and get more disrepair and possibly sell it for less later? You could talk about the first thing we do need to do is post to no trespassing. if you, if the squatter comes in there and you have to evict them, you can end up, I'm assuming the place is free and clear, or is there a mortgage on it?
Christian: [00:11:31] There is a mortgage $50,000. Her daughter lives at the property right now.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:11:36] Oh, okay.
Christian: [00:11:37] Living there at the moment.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:11:38] Gotcha. Okay. I think. You need to probably get that clear. Does her daughter want to remain there? Is that part of the issue or do you know?
Christian: [00:11:45] She wants to hold a property as as an investment, which is weird because this property is, as an investment point of view, it makes no sense because it requires too much work.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:11:53] So Christian, has she told you that she does not want to sell, or are you assuming that she's gotten cold feet and decided not to sell?
Christian: [00:12:01] She said she wanted to sell originally depending on I gave her a CMA and would have potentially can sell points. So I gave her kind of two options.
A I have somebody that's looking to buy it the way it is. This is the price, and this is what we think we can get for the property. If we're putting it out in the market, we do say like the wholesale situation. And this is like a two-part question, like in wholesale that I was going to ask next, Is there a disclosure, do you guys use, I know every state is different from where it, as an agent, we don't want to get in trouble by, not looking out for the best interest of our clients, if they decide to take the low offer.
And obviously we end up selling it for more. So another agent, does that make sense or, yep.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:12:37] Yeah, it makes sense. Let me go back to part one of the question before I mentioned anything about a disclosure. part one, I think it really, what I was driving at a second ago is whether she has actually told you that she's gotten cold feet and decided not to sell.
Or whether that's just what her actions are saying. If her actions are saying that, then I'm going to have a conversation with her and I'm going to, I'm going to be pretty Frank with her and I'm going to say, Hey, look, you know what? I don't know what is best for you. but. What I do know is a lot of people just out of confusion and overwhelm, they end up just getting stuck and I want to help you not be stuck.
I want to help you make the decision that's best for you. Even if that decision means that you do hold onto the property as an investment, and then walk her through a series of questions where you can begin to number one, understand for yourself, and number two, help her understand what's more painful.
Is it more painful to keep the property, or is it more painful to sell the property? there's pain both ways, but which one is going to cause her the most pain in the long run? Okay. is it because she has a daughter living in the house? Is it because she thinks it's a, is it just because she's sad that might be what it is.
She doesn't want to make the decision yet that she's damaging herself with a mortgage that she's paying and no income coming in on the property. And when you start to, maybe ask her, okay, give me say something like this. Give me. one of the main two reasons that you would want to sell, and maybe she says, we've got this mortgage.
And, and I don't want to keep paying this mortgage and then say, okay, tell me a little bit more about that. So you take her down this funnel of explaining at a deeper level, what that pain is gonna do. Okay. And what, what happens if you. If, how long can you continue to carry that mortgage?
And she tells you, and then say, okay, what happens if you don't get a renter in? Okay. What's the worst thing that could happen to you? Just take her down this funnel, where she begins to enlighten herself because she probably hasn't even asked herself those questions yet. And she needs to be able to ask yourself those questions, but she's in the moment she's wrapped up in it.
So she's not able to separate herself and ask the right questions to really understand her own motivations. But in order to do that, you are going to have to lead into that by saying, Hey, you know what? I want to help you. No matter whether it's good for me or bad for me, I want to help you understand what your next move is because.
Doing nothing is probably the worst thing that you can do.
Christian: [00:15:10] Okay. Okay.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:15:11] And Jim, I don't know if we have a disclosure. I haven't seen a disclosure for an agent wholesaling, a property. If I were wholesaling a property, I would just sit down and draft up a simple disclosure saying I am a real estate agent.
I have presented you an option to list. And you feel like the option to, put it in contract with me is the best I am probably going to turn this over to another investor, assign another investor and, and just, it doesn't need to be long. It just needs to be something that's. pretty short and explains that yes, she had an opportunity to list that you didn't twist your arm to, go in contract with you and that you are going to try to flip that contract.
And that should cover you .
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:15:51] A very smart attorney years ago, till you told me, make sure everybody's intentions are very clearly stated and it's not ambiguous. Now having said that, whatever you're going to use, please run it by your broker. They should be, that should be your last filter because some brokers have zero risk tolerance and others are, maybe more common sense based.
But in also, I know we've talked about it before it's not absolutely necessary, but it's not a bad idea to have a separate entity just for your flips. And like a single member LLC is a good vehicle for, just for your flips in your wholesale deals where, you probably still are going to disclose that you're the owner of that entity, but it would just really isolate your liability of if anything does happen or something.
It's probably not to do it better to do it, not in your own name. if you can avoid it, use a corporation or an entity.
Christian: [00:16:41] Got it. Cause I know a buddy of mine, he buys a lot of properties from a wholesaler and these properties are in distress. Homeowners are like no foreclosure and they pretty much, buy it as is no contingency is like 20% earnest money and that's not refundable and they have to buy it the way it is.
I'm just trying to link these in the kind of disclosure. I haven't been able to come across it. I just wanted to see if anyone. Here in probate, which, sounds like a lot of people post up to if they ever come across with disclosure like that.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:17:07] Yeah. Yeah. If anybody does, they want to send it to us.
And again, once you get it, run it by your attorney. I'll tell you what. As a wholesaler, I just ran into a situation in the house across the street from my son who's for sale and it got to go. And by the time I called him, he had four written offers from wholesalers. obviously work in death certificates and they were all a hundred dollars deposit.
You know what your strategy there. If I was a full-time wholesaler, I would do exactly what you just said. If you really intend to buy the property for that price, or if you really are confident enough that you can wholesale it, you maybe don't need to put 20% down, but put a thousand dollars down, put enough.
On the offer that it, you look serious, a hundred dollars deposit is too easy to walk away from. So try to be a little bit different than the other wholesalers and will make you stand out for sure.
Christian: [00:17:51] Okay.
Handling Common Objections In Probate Cold Calls [00:17:52] And then can I ask one more question or we're short on time? Sure. No, you're good. Go ahead.
Okay. So one of the leads that I contact yesterday, one of the objections I received was this is the first time I hear this. I've been here, a lot of your podcasts. And he said, what makes you think I can't do it myself when it comes to the probate and the cleaning out the house. And then the other objection I received was they have an agent and then the third one will receive was my attorney is handling everything and I pretty much got stuck on all three.
The agent, I understood. He said it was a family agent. And then the first one was like, I can want me to think I can't do it myself when I. And the way I responded to that was, this is where I see a lot of families, be very successful in, and this is where I hear a lot of families struggle because of the amount of time and effort and everything that comes along with it.
But I didn't know what to say after that, when I mentioned that and then forgot where the conversation went, but, those are the few of them that the biggest objections that I've seen so far.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:18:44] Sure. yeah. So what makes you think I can't handle it myself? now I don't think that, I, some people want to handle this on their own and other people want a, a team member to do it alongside.
it depends on whether, whether it's valuable to you to have somebody take that stuff off of your plate. If it's not, by all means, I'm happy to make you an offer on the house or help you sell it. But, but if you don't want help cleaning it out, that's fine now. And then I'd say, I know that, if I want to do business in the real estate world, With someone like you, that I need to offer more services than anyone else, because I want to give you so much value that you almost don't feel like you have a choice, except for, to see what I can offer you.
Okay. Now, in my world, in my introductions, when I'm having conversations with, with PRS, I don't generally get that because I rarely, I rarely tell them what I do. For them. I tell them what I do for other people. So I'll say, look, I don't know if what I do is going to be valuable to you, but the people that do find a value in the service I provide have told me things like Bruce we're struggling with the clean-out.
We don't know who's going to take what property, how we're going to get rid of things. Honestly, it's just an overwhelming job. And they tell me things like. repairs and maintenance or something that I don't have time for in my own life. And, then they might say something like, we don't know what we're going to do with the real estate.
Are we going to sell it? Should we sell it to an investor or should we list it? And then I'll just turn it back on them and say, I don't know if any of that resonates with your experience, but if it does, should we talk a little bit more that at the end of, yup. Go ahead. Go ahead. Finish up. Okay.
All right. So the, that person doesn't feel like I am, I'm selling them, believe me, that's by design and I am selling them with every step of the process, but they don't feel like they're being sold. They feel like I'm describing someone that's in their situation, but I'm not saying you need this and you need that.
I'm saying someone else needs this and that. And if you're like that, should we talk a little bit more?
Tim Yandell: [00:20:52] Yeah, it's also great too. If somebody says something like that, to realize that they may be, subconsciously bragging about their capability. And it's also good to grab on that and turn it back the other way, which is to say, that's great.
It's obvious that, you are very different from a lot of the people that I talk to because most people don't have much experience doing this and do require some help or find it a benefit. If somebody tells you that in a defensive way, compliment them on it as well, it's always easier to compliment somebody who's telling you something negative than the other way around.
Christian: [00:21:25] Gotcha.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:21:26] So the attorney question, that was an objection that, that won't be the last time you hear our attorney has taken care of it. What we know is that the attorney probably isn't handling everything. The attorney is most likely only handling the legal side and maybe referring them.
But when I get an objection like that, and this is only one technique you're going to hear multiple different techniques and ways of handling objections. I normally like to use it as an opportunity to number one, reduce someone's guard. Number two, pivot to the real estate conversation because there's a dirty little secret in my business.
I honestly don't really want to go in and clean a house out. I offer it. Because I know that it's a value to them and ultimately if I get them what they want, they'll get me what I want, but I don't want to be and cleaning houses out and cutting grass and cleaning gutters. And so if somebody immediately says, Hey, we've got it all handled or our attorneys taking care of that, I say, okay, that's great.
I do what Tim just mentioned. I praise and validate that objection. It's the complete opposite of what they're expecting. They're expecting you to attack it and try to handle it. But if you praise and validate it drops their guard a little bit and say, obviously you're not going to need help in those areas.
You've probably pretty experienced. Do you mind if I ask you a really quick question before I let you go, though? Were you guys thinking about selling the real estate or were you guys thinking about holding onto it? So you validate to get the guard dropped and then you pivot into real estate question.
Christian: [00:22:50] Okay, that makes sense. And then the agent part, the only reason I imagine I'm w I don't, I didn't want to mention that I'm a real estate broker, but because I was thrown out by so many of these objections, and I'm sure this is common, and I'm just not used to it yet. It's just, I had no choice, but to go, I am a real estate broker, and I like to tell my clients, and this is a resource that I provide, because I know how stressful it is.
And, I'm a connector and this is what I do.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:23:12] That's perfect by the way. Yeah. Don't be ashamed to tell people that you're in real estate. The last thing we want is for the people that we're talking to not have any idea what we really do know a lot of times I talked to people and we'll be role-playing at the end of the role-play or halfway through the role-play in my mind, I'm going, they really haven't told me what it is that they do or what's in it for them.
So I don't shy away from telling someone at some point in that conversation that you are in real estate and that you're doing these extra services so that you can provide so much value that you also get a shot to interview for the job of selling their house. Now, if they say I have a real estate agent and I'm sure Jim and probably Tim have an answer to that.
I go. Okay, great. perfect. I'm sure. I'm sure they're experienced in the probate space. And, Would you be open-minded or would you consider interviewing anyone else that might provide a little bit different service? Just see if they're open to it. Most people consider themselves to be open-minded.
And by framing that question in a way that it slightly implies that they're not an open-minded person, if they say no, you'll probably have them say, yeah, I consider it. It doesn't mean you're going to get the job. It means that now at least you've got a foot in the door for the interview.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:24:26] While you were saying that Bruce had occurred to me. If you ask somebody, are you open minded enough to anything? It's like everybody, like you said, something very important that everybody wants to be thought of as being open-minded. So it's pretty, it's hard to say no, to whatever, whatever follows that.
That's a really good way to put it. Yup. Excellent.
Christian: [00:24:44] When they say they're, when they say they're open-minded and try to set the appointment and then and there, or try to follow up later.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:24:50] Depends on how far out they are. Okay. preferably before they say that, you found out what their timing is. If they're a ways out, I might say, Oh great. Let's if they're four months out, say why don't we, why don't we do maybe a zoom interview and just have a little preliminary chat.
And talk about some of those services that I could give that your other agent might not be giving you. Could you meet with me in two weeks? we can either do it at the house or do it over zoom. And that's probably the way I would lean if I was getting too much resistance and they were still a long ways out.
obviously, if they're going to list next month or in two weeks, you need to get it, get to the house. It's imperative that you do that. if they say they're open-minded to it, but if they say they're open-minded, you can take the wheel and drive that bus wherever you want it to go.
Christian: [00:25:33] Okay. All right. Cool.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:25:34] We appreciate you. We got eight more in the queue. We're going to try to get to everybody as always, if we don't just contact us right after the call, we'll get back to you.
One-on-one next up is phone number ending in three zero four zero. You're up next.
Voicemails, Contact Rates and Best Time For Real Estate Phone Prospecting [00:25:47] Kathy: [00:25:47] Hi, this is Kathy. I've got several questions. I'm having, some issues. One of is the biggest thing is that when I call people, I very seldom get anyone to answer and I've been trying to call a different time and I get the same results.
And some of them, of course, allows me to leave a message. So should I be leaving messages or not?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:26:07] Yeah, this really does go to the, it depends category. If you're calling once a month, leave a message. If you're going to call three to seven times in that first month, you might skip the message the first couple of times.
And then leave it starting on your third call, which, which is generally I try to coach as many people as into calling at least three times a month. Okay. At least. so if you're going to do that, I would probably skip a message on your first two calls. Leave it on the third. Maybe skip the fourth, leave it on the fifth so stagger those. cause there's still a chance that they are going to call you back. If you don't leave a message those first couple of times, the other thing that you're calling, if you call, make note of the time that you called, and if you make a phone call and you're trying to get them at two o'clock in the afternoon, next time you call them in the evening, make sure that you're varying those times.
That's going to increase your likelihood of success. Because if they're working a job, you don't get them during the day. Then you need to call them later and you gotta realize that most PRS are working somewhere. They're generally not at home during the day. So you may have to adjust your calling time to make sure that you reach them.
Kathy: [00:27:13] Okay. That's a good idea to me. Now, do you also suggest I do put the star 76, so they don't see my number or.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:27:22] No. you're not leaving a message. You want them to see your number because there's a chance that they will call it back just out of curiosity. Okay.
Kathy: [00:27:29] Now the other thing is I thought, in the training that that a, executor could not sign a contract with them until they received that letter testamentary. Now I was told by another, another person he says, it's not true. They can sign a contract. They just can't close. So I'm wondering which way is correct.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:27:49] I would just say, Hey both are, you can sign a contract any time.
It just might not be valid if it was questioned. If you meet with the PR, doesn't have the letter of testamentary yet you can get a letter of intent or you can have him sign something, but if he tries to get out of it, it's not, it's probably not valid until they get the letter of testamentary.
Would you agree with that, Bruce?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:28:08] I would agree. Yeah.
Kathy: [00:28:09] Cause I've seen a lot of agents doing that.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:28:11] Yeah. They just don't know better.
Kathy: [00:28:13] Okay. Now I, have found out and I do this, that I can go into, our my court records on the internet and I can pull up the case number and I can see what's going on. So if they take that's what I'm good for that I know they take in a such and such, or that testamentary letter could be following soon.
My question is should I try to in the conversation when I do get ahold of them, I see the testamentary or maybe coming soon or not let them know that. I know that.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:28:40] No. I don't see any reason that you wouldn't want to appear as knowledgeable as possible. Do you Bruce?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:28:45] It depends. I hate to keep saying it depends, but it depends. if I have someone that's being resistant to me, I'm probably gonna make statements and give them an opportunity to correct me.
If they're the type of, if they're skeptical person that resists answering questions, that skeptical person, a lot of times will answer a question. If it's phrased as a statement and they have a chance to affirm or correct, you. But if it's someone that is being fairly open and they're reasonable on the phone, then, ask questions.
So instead of making that statement, you already know the answer, say, Hey, do you have any idea when the letters testamentary is going to be coming out? So you'd need to play it off of the personality that you're dealing with.
Kathy: [00:29:23] Okay. I also can see if an account is open or closed.
So I were to know on the ones that are where they dropped the order, would it be worth my time to even try to contact them? Or I'm not? I don't understand why somebody would drop the older
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:29:37] They dropped. They dropped the order for the probate. In other words, they dismissed the probate? Yes. Yes. There could be a couple. The only reason I can think of is maybe it's a, some kind of a small state exemption. They found out that they didn't need to file it. It was filed prematurely.
Maybe the owners went down to the courthouse and filed, and the attorney told him, you qualify under the small state exemption. You don't need to file. So they dismiss it. I can't think, I can't think of any other reason. Can you Bruce
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:30:02] Yeah, the only other reason, and this really depends on the state.
So my state North Carolina for example, is, there are times when, the house is the only thing that keeping you out of the small state exemption, and the court will occasionally allow you to carve the house outside of it. So yes, Jim's answer is correct, with a few caveats because there are times when they opened probate and then they just realized, Hey, we didn't need to do this. that doesn't mean that they're not a good lead anymore. They're probably even a better lead now because you don't have the courts to deal with.
Kathy: [00:30:36] Yeah. Okay. All right. And then of course our, he was, I just came up on me and I'm just wondering, w what would you waste your time on them any more or not?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:30:45] On who?
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:30:45] People that just hang up,
Kathy: [00:30:46] I say hello. I'm so-and-so the next thing I know, they're off the phones.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:30:50] Oh, heck yes. Call them again. you'll say I hang up on people sometimes, when I'm really busy and I'm just not in the mood to deal with it. And then three days later, I don't even remember who it was that called me and I'm in a better mood and I have more time to deal with it.
So by all means call them again.
Kathy: [00:31:06] Okay. All right.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:31:08] Thank you. Next up is phone number ending in four four, two eight. You're up next.
Why You Should Call Probate Leads That Don't Show Real Estate [00:31:13] Tim Madden: [00:31:13] Hey, this is Tim Madden, the Cincinnati. I'm a new subscriber. Hey, Tim. going to quick question on the data I've gotten or state of file for County and, using the mailbox motivator, right?
Probably a plus, I've I was looking through, I'm just getting ready to do some calls. So when I get off of it, call here today, I'll be making my first call. So here, blessed me and wish me luck. A couple of quick questions. So when I was looking through the leads that I was getting ready to call, I did notice, some of them obviously have no real estate and honestly, I'm a real, I'm an investor first.
So I'm not really sure if I'm interested in calling people don't have real estate. any reasons why I should.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:31:46] There, I think there are reasons why you should and reasons why you maybe will decide not to, the reasons that you should, our referral opportunities. You're building a team and you call people that need a financial advisor. They need a lender. They need, they still need to clean out crew because I'm sure their loved one lives somewhere.
And so you could turn those into referral opportunities. if you are overwhelmed and not able to really consistently get to the number of leads that you have, then scrub those out. But if you have time and you have the bandwidth, you use it as a chance to refer,
Tim Madden: [00:32:18] Okay. Maybe that would be a secondary, call list.
Then if I have time, I can swing back and work on those.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:32:25] Yeah. And obviously you can still call those. You can still call those attorneys. factor that into, in an activity that being an active attorney, and if you have the bandwidth, you can prospect the attorneys also.
Tim Madden: [00:32:35] I appreciate that because actually, what's nice about the files is I can actually sort it or filter it by and identify the attorneys that are the most active.
So I've gotten yourself a short list of attorneys by doing that. So FYI everybody else. So that was really helpful. Okay. The other question I have is, Oh, how, what's the best way to really, if I want to get rid of those, no real estate leads. I'm looking at the, the, the tab, the option status tab.
I believe we're where do I best, Filter those out. So if it all ended up on other lists that I, mailed followup letters to.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:33:06] So if you're on the options and status tab, exclude from list view. Obviously, you're going to exclude. If you're not going to call them, you're not going to mail them. Let's just assume that you're not going to do that. then you would exclude from mail calls, probate plus, and the list view. and then that way, when you pull your overall your big picture list up, it only shows you those that you haven't scrubbed out.
Tim Madden: [00:33:27] Okay. Great. Great. I got that. I'm looking at it and I see it. the other question I have, I'm a licensed realtor. I'm an investor first, but I happen to have a real estate license. I'm going to start listing some of these probate leads. If I have, when I have the situation, I talked to my broker and he said, this is a plug for you guys, by the way.
he said, if you can identify a front, which ones are already listed and don't mail them. So in a, in a. W when you use probate, plus it actually does identify the MLS listings and that's really helpful by the way. So I just, that's a plug for you guys. If you stay out of trouble, my broker, ah, there you go.
The questions I have was, if the, I'm pretty sold, pending or active, obviously sold it's, it's done. And that's the primary nugget that we're going after. I am anyway. I probably don't want to actually market to those. Correct.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:34:12] Most people choose not to market to the ones that have sold. And, Jim, Tim, you guys might want to chime in. So I don't want to, I'll tell you that I don't market to the ones that are sold or don't have, but I don't have the bandwidth to try to dig up the referrals from those people. Basically I'm identifying who's in my strike zone when I go through and I scrubbed my list down for the first time using probate, plus who's in my strike zone and who's not.
And the people in my strike zone I doubled down on and they're going to get a time and Tim can attest to this. They're going to get a ton of mail from me and then everybody else gets scrubbed out. And if I'm going to touch them, it's going to be more for the referrals.
Tim Yandell: [00:34:49] Yeah. One of the things that we're finding more of and it is becoming increasingly important is that there are, there's a higher level of interest from the financial services community, not only in the, financial advisor side, but in the structured settlement and the inheritance and advanced side.
And if you think about beginning to look to significantly, add that to your team. Those are people who very specifically would be quite interested in, at least having their name put forth to the people who have in fact sold, because those are the people that are either been hidden in haircuts or have gotten an inheritance.
So there may be some value in helping with that. And one of the things Bruce often talks about is getting those people to, and potentially help defray some of your costs on mailings. And Bruce was a big proponent as our, we have more mailings rather than less. Because it's doing the work for you. So you may want to think about that as you advance your skillset and you recruit financial people to be part of your game.
Those people pay a lot of money for leads and they would be quite happy to get somebody who just, potentially inherited a, $300,000 windfall to do that with
Tim Madden: [00:36:00] Also with somebody that's sold a house recently. Yep.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:36:03] Yup. they probably had life insurance too, there's, there are a lot of people that you could put on your team that would want to have access and want to help prospect to that list as Tim just mentioned, I am a big proponent of having people offset and defray my costs. It costs me very little to, to have probate is a niche in my business because I bring other people in. And, and they pitch in small, sometimes small amounts, sometimes larger amounts to offset some of that cost.
Tim Madden: [00:36:30] Okay. All right. I appreciate that very much.
So the other thing I did notice in the data file, where there a situation where there's corporate owners versus personal versus trust, and personal, I'm going to merket too, but a corporate owners, I was seeking your input on that.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:36:43] give me an example of incorporating, like a for example or,
Tim Madden: [00:36:47] like a senior living center. I saw a number of those in the area that I'm in.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:36:50] So those are, very untapped opportunity. Somebody who's going to get a lot of business when they crack the nursing home and senior living business and their community.
it does require a separate marketing message and a separate approach that if you could scrub those, those centers out there. Probably not only taking one property over there, probably doing this every month with multiple people. And if you can crack that code and go after them build a relationship, there's a lot of business to be had.
Tim Yandell: [00:37:19] Are you saying that they're showing up as the, in probate, plus it's showing up as the owned residence of that person.
Tim Madden: [00:37:27] No, if I go, I'm actually looking at the file right now. And, let me see if I can find the examples that I was looking at
Tim Yandell: [00:37:33] I'm concerned that you're talking about, the last known address of the deceased?
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:37:36] No, it shows up in my list as well. It is the actual, current owner of the real estate that used to be in the deceased name. So it will have already transferred. And, so sometimes it a donation sometimes you'll see that the church, churches owns it, a hospital, a senior living center, a nursing home.
It will have transferred about 5% of the time through probate plus I don't want to call it a false positive it'll flag that, the real estate that the deceased owned. But then when you look at the current owner information, you see that last year, it transferred to the nursing home, or it transferred to the senior, senior living.
Tim Yandell: [00:38:14] I wonder if they're doing that to pay, they're doing that to pay the bill. I bet that may be part of it. They may be paying some of that nursing home bill by depleting cash. Instead of trying to sell the property they take needs in the title.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:38:26] That's interesting. Very well could be. Yep. I didn't think about that.
That's a real interesting thing to look at. Hey, I know we've got a lot of huge impact. Maybe we got left, but yeah, go ahead. We've got three, three left. So we may run a few minutes over, but we're three left. We should be fine. Are you good, Tim?
Tim Madden: [00:38:41] Thank you.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:38:41] All right. Thank you, sir. Next up is phone number ending in two five one seven.
You're up next.
Book Recommendation: Exactly What To Say [00:38:47]
Caller 1: [00:38:47] Hi, you too. Hey, I didn't really have a question. I just, in the beginning you were talking about some phraseologies like, because, or things of that nature. And I stumbled across this very short audio book called exactly what to say, by Philip M, M as in Mary, Jones. And he has those things like, the same thing.
I'm not sure if it's for you, but, I just wanted to mention it to the group. I really, I didn't have a question this time, but because you were talking about that, I just, this is such a great. And when you listen to it at one-and-a-half speed, you'll get it done in an hour.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:39:18] Great. Thank you.
Bruce Hill (Coach): [00:39:19] And for everyone listening to this, I've read that book about five times.
it doesn't take any time at all and, there's a paid audio book. It's cheap, but there's also a free PDF version online. If you Google exactly what to say, book, it will show up. And that's a really powerful book with about 27 phrases that you could use in a sales and a sales pitch that builds rapport.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:39:40] Awesome. Appreciate it too. Thank you so much. Good advice. All right. last is phone number ending in four, six 63. You're up last. Using Letter Of Intent to Overcome "My Attorney" Objections [00:39:49]
Caller 2: [00:39:49] Hey, I was thinking back to Danny's first situation there with the attorney. and he was saying, the, the owner or the PR was hesitant to deal with him because of the, the attorney wasn't giving him permission to sell or something like that.
And I thought, is there another way to maybe use a letter of intent and, in the letter of intent, if the owner is willing. Or the PR is willing to just say, if not objected to by the, attorney, we agreed to, XYZ. That way, it puts something in writing. It gets you the conversation going a bit further.
and it, it does give the PR the opportunity, the comfort that, the attorney can object to something, if there's something to object to. But of course, anything else that follows that statement, would hold if the attorney doesn't have any real matter of fact. Objection.
You see where I'm going with the question? Yeah. Yup. For, of course the attorney not forced the attorney to say what's wrong. and if there is nothing wrong, you've got something moving forward.
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:40:44] We used to do that all the time.
We wrote a letter. Yeah, I think so too. We used to do that with real estate contracts with the seller. I'm going to run it by my attorney. Okay. Let's put, let's go ahead and put it into contract contingent upon attorney's approval as to terms and conditions, they can't come back and say, my attorney didn't agree with the price.
very similar tactic. that's a great idea.
Caller 2: [00:41:03] Okay. Okay. Thank you
Jim Sullivan (Host/Coach): [00:41:04] All right, guys, good call and we end right on time, which never happens. I want to thank each of you for being here today. We actually had a pretty good attendance considering what's going on in the world. And I want to particularly thank those that actively participated.
I want to challenge each of you. Take one, thought one idea. One thing that inspired you on this call, go out and put it into practice. And please come back next Thursday and share your results with the group. Have a great week. Stay healthy, stay productive, and we will talk to you. Same time. Next Thursday.
Take care of everybody.