Leveraging Letters of Intent | Shortening Your Elevator Pitch | Probate Mastermind Podcast #314Katt Wagner
Probate Mastermind Episode #314 | Recorded Live on February 11th, 2021.
In this episode of the Probate Mastermind Podcast, you'll learn how to leverage letters of intent while a personal representative waits for letters of testamentary; structure your business in a way that represents your brand and protects your assets; get through your cold calling introduction with a successful and concise elevator pitch; how to navigate acquisitions when probate courts place a minimum purchase price on probate property; and how to scrub old leads efficiently.
***Most importantly, we hear more incredible success stories from rookies and veterans that are turning probate leads into listings, acquisitions, and wholesale deals!
These episodes are recorded as a live Question and Answer Mastermind with participation from agents and investors across the country. Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe for future episodes!
00:00 Leveraging Letters of Intent While A PR Waits For Testamentary Letters
Federico is meeting with the decision makers of an estate this weekend. They are very early in the probate process and have not received their letters of testamentary yet. Assuming they will sell the house in the future, how can Federico build rapport and solidify an exclusive relationship this weekend, before the personal representative has the authority to enter a listing agreement?
Mike is expecting a huge increase in inventory in his market in a few months, and his sellers are motivated to sell now while they can get competitive offers and ultimately a higher net. However, he believes the attorney they are working with is offering conflicting information on whether or not they can sell right now. Mike explains the situation and the coaches help him navigate options. Michelle asks a follow-up question on Muniment of title at 37:22.
25:00 Asset Protection and Structuring Your Business
Mike is looking to structure his business in a way that reflects all the hats he will be wearing and protect his assets, limit his liability.
32:45 How Far Back Should I Scrub For Property?
Mark is considering running his 2016 and 2017 probate lead lists through ProbatePlus to scrub for remaining properties. He has almost 1000 leads. Is this worth it? Tim and Jim suggest using the 2017 data first, as that is still within the sweet spot of how probate leads age and realize their initial plan to keep inherited property just isn’t realistic.
39:48 How to Shorten Your Elevator Pitch.
Travis is getting interrupted in his cold calling introductions - “What do you want?” How can he get past that? Bruce gives his advice.
48:01 80% Rule and Investment Acquisitions
Caller is in Ohio, where probates with a court-appointed administrator place an 80% rule on the sale of any property in probate. He is interested in purchasing many of these properties as investment properties, but they aren’t worth the 80% minimum requested by the court. Jim has experience doing and describes how to make a case to the court for a proper valuation. Often, the fiduciaries get their numbers from computer algorithms.
Looking to hear prospecting tips in action? Check out our live role play series.
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Probate Mastermind Real Estate Podcast Episode #314
A.I. Voice Narration: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Probate Mastermind Podcast. These episodes are recorded live once a week and are hosted by the AllTheLeads.com coaches. Agents, investors, and wholesalers join the coaches each week for everything from marketing tips, sales, psychology, live deal analysis, transaction engineering, advanced real estate strategy and personal development.
You will learn to get more listings, more deals and find financial freedom by listening to these episodes. Be sure to catch show notes at AllTheLeads.com/podcast and join our free Facebook mastermind community: https://facebook.com/groups/AllTheLeadsMastermind
Welcome prolific agents and investors from across the country. Today is February 11th, 2021. And this is mastermind podcast. Number 314. We do have two in the queue guys. We got plenty of room for more, just hit star six and then hit one. And let's go to our first person in the queue. First up this week, his phone number ending in eight two one three.
Marker [00:00:59]Good morning guys. How are you? Excellent. How you doing, sir? I'm great. This is fed. I have a win, so just one, right? Like when? Yes please. Yes, sir. Been I've been consistent with my calls and it looks like they're paying off. I got a call. I called a PR. Left her a message. The next number on the list happened to be the dad who took my information down long story short.
She called me this week. I reached out to her originally three weeks ago and it looks like I will be meeting her and her brother who are both decision-makers this Saturday at 3:00 PM at the house. They did not have an attorney. So I referred an attorney to them. And the beauty is that the attorney then immediately sent me another client back in return.
So it's like a double win. Awesome, good job. How old was lead fed? How long had you been working at? No, this one was actually relatively new. I reached out January 18th. So it was one yeah. One from the January list then basically brand new list. That's that? That's correct. Yeah. Yes.
That's great. So yeah, my question. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry about that. No, I was just going to say that's good to hear we a lot. We spent a lot of time, stressing how it can take, three to six months or longer to convert these leads. And a lot of them do, but it's not uncommon. That we'll hear, I got my first set of leads and I got a couple listings or I got three listings.
So that's good to hear, it does work both ways. And good job you with, for you at establishing rapport right away. You, it sounds like you kinda. Made friends with two of them. And that probably helped two of the errors and that helped solidify the appointment. And it sounds like it may just be a, come get me listing.
Does that, is that your perception? I, it seems like it, so obviously thanks to you guys. I knew how to I don't want to say handled the objection, but more just through your guys's help and, the private calls with Bruce. Yeah, she was steering towards the head. Let me talk to my brother and then I'll get back to about an appointment.
And I just said, look, since, since we're all busy, Let's just schedule a tentative appointment. And if anything changes we'll we can always change change the date as well. I'm free Saturday in the morning at 11 or 3:00 PM. What's best for you. And eventually she just said, look, let's do three.
And then I even had an insurance specialist call her to place a vacant home insurance policy on the asset called her to confirm. And she didn't say anything about changing Saturday. I think, yeah. It's thanks to you guys. So thank you very much for that. I have a question regarding that.
So it seems, since she doesn't have an attorney, my impression is that she doesn't have the letters of testamentary yet. So when I go there on Saturday, I was more just trying to establish a rapport and maybe get a, you get a better understanding of the property to see if there's anything we could do prior to that taking place.
They did express that they do want to sell the assets. I'm pretty sure that's going to be the case. Is there something, is it a bad idea for me to go this Saturday? Since they don't have essentially the letters of testamentary in front of them and they haven't been to court yet, which is why I put them in touch with the attorney or is it good to still go to maintain rapport and just see what we can handle ahead of time?
Fed hay. So Hey, I think that you, 100% need to go on that appointment. This Saturday. What I would do is I would go ahead and take maybe a single page letter of intent with you, and essentially just explain to them. Look, if you don't have your letters of testamentary yet. Okay. We're not going to be able to do a full established listing, but if you if you want me to go ahead and reach out to my private buyers list and at least start having conversations to see what kind of interests that I have, let's go ahead and sign this.
I can. I start having conversations with private buyers that, that I may be working with and then say, and then as soon as we get our letters testamentary, we can go ahead and sign an official listing agreement and get it moving forward. But let's talk about some of the terms that we want to be included in the listing agreement when it comes.
So maybe we'll. This will give us a chance to talk about picking a price taking listing terms. Give us a chance to talk about some of the other services that I'm going to offer to you guys included in the future listing. Okay, you go on that appointment this Saturday and try to get something tentative in writing.
It's not going to be enforceable if they don't have letters, testamentary but at least it'll get a, get an emotional commitment. Hey, we actually did sign something and they usually won't steer away from. Okay, perfect. Absolutely. I'll I'll do that. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yep.
Great job. One other thing, one other thing. Go ahead, Bruce finish. I'm sorry, I'm just going to throw and a couple of other things about your approach. So far, a few of the notes that I was taking is number one, this is just a true Testament to how you, we should absolutely be working down the list and calling people on the list.
May not even be the PR. So you had left her a message and then you got through to her father, great job calling down the list. There's a lot of good things that happen when you call down the list and you start establishing relationships with other family members or or people that, that sometimes even it's the ex spouse, the PR I've heard a lot of good stories about that, too.
Another thing that I'm going to throw in. You used the a classic, double bind, which is a really powerful appointment setter where you pick a time you pick two times, so Saturday, I think you said at 11 or Saturday at three, it gives the kind of the illusion or the subconscious feeling of choice.
When really you're the one that's in control. Now I'll just throw this in for you and anyone else that is in the habit of using a double bind where they offer two different choices to someone for an appointment, time, more and more people. The F the later. More recently more and more people are recognizing those double bind.
So if you're going to use one, I might also recommend throwing in a third option. It's still giving the the, the illusion of choice, but. It's not as recognizable. So you might say I have available Saturday at 11 or Saturday at three. And of course, if those don't times don't work for you, I could also do Tuesday afternoon.
What works better for you? Just the thought of throwing in a third choice in case they're sales savvy they won't recognize it as much. That makes sense. I appreciate that. I'll definitely put it into play. Thank you. Okay, Bruce, that sounds a lot. Yeah, that sounds a lot less scripted. And what I was gonna add said one of my original mentors in the business taught me that the best way to handle the objection is never to have it come up and good job.
When you sensed an objection coming, you headed it off before she even had a chance to get it out. It sounds like. So that's a really good, that's a good example of listening and responding and. Avoiding having to answer the objection because you answered it ahead of time.
So great job with that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you guys. All right. Great job. We appreciate you. We have two more in the queue guys. We got plenty of room for more. Don't be shy it star six and hit one. Next up is phone number ending in zero five, four, four. You're up next.
Are you there? Grand Prairie, Texas I 73 65 Oh one. You mean? Different numbers showing up, but that's okay. It's used. So go ahead. All right thanks guys for taking my call.
Marker [00:08:36] Hey, I just thought I had a win from a December call, followed up with two letters and then followed up with a call.
And she had just gotten her letter of testamentary in North Carolina for her brother's house here in Texas. She told me that she already had four realtors lined up. But she was flying out this week and I could free to call her this week when she got in case somebody canceled. I did do that yesterday and lead with the foot that listen, I've been at this for 18 years as real estate agents sold over 850 houses.
I just did my parents' estate. I am sure that I will have more value for you. So it would be worth your time to at least meet with me. And she reads, so I am going there with my estate planner today at 4:00 PM. I consider that a wind that I at least got to the doorsteps. So anyway, it's working. Second thing, I'm sorry.
I just said, that's a huge win. You can go on with your second thing and I'll hold my comments. Oh, okay. Bruce, by the way, while you're coming and put my name down again, Mike rec art, R E K a R T. Still want to talk to you about private coaching? All right. I didn't have your last name. Last time I got it now.
Record R E K a R T. Perfect. Oh so the not muniment of title, as I've heard it say here, but muniment of title that my probably lower tells me is how it's pronounced. I'm having a lot of people get the fact that listen, we have to wait for the hearing date. I don't have my letter of testamentary yet.
But muniment of title. I've got a classic case that I just can't get to the table. This is actually past client of mine, whose father is Fastly approaching dementia. And they've got a investment house that I have actually sold and bought, rented out for them, but they want to sell it. It is all ready to go and has been moving ready, but it's empty.
But I gave them a probate lawyer and did get them to get his affairs in check after the mother had died. And my lawyer, although I'm trying to get ahold of her is that I recommended is telling them that they can't do anything now until they have the hearing date three months from now. Now I really do think that the market is going to change as people.
Lead the uncertainty of the election Brewha and the uncertainty with COVID as we all get vaccinated. So I expect that I'm going to see a surge in inventory here right now. My sellers are pirates. They're getting over asking price multiple offers. So I'm trying to do the best by this client and for long long story short sooner is better for them.
And. The lawyer is saying, no, you can't do anything. We're in Texas. There was a will from the other, even though both names are on it. And we got, yeah. Or at least I've heard that we've got that. No, you have to wait for the hearing. This is the same lawyer who told me just a month ago that another lawyer who was saying that.
It was just their opinion that we couldn't sell the house, put it up for sale and sell it. Now I'm not talking about the funds necessarily going anywhere a little bit. The name beneficiary in this case is the surviving spouse. But is there something I'm missing? I hate to go toe to toe with the lawyer and say, wait a minute, what about muniment of title?
We should be able to sell the house, put it up and sell it. And just not distribute the funds or distribute the funds only to a trust vehicle.
No. That's okay. No, you were very clear. Very, it was pretty concise actually. The attorney you're dealing with is you had recommended them or they found her on you. They found her on their own. I think, because of my venture with you guys, that was my recommended attorney. Listened.
You don't have a trust for Joe. You got to get a trust. And he's got a million dollars where the real estate coming in this trust, but this is one of the first at $275,000 houses, that investment, but he's got a lot of property oil and cattle property that, I pushed the alarm for them to get into a trust and got them this trust and probate lawyer outfit here in town that I'm trying to build a relationship with.
And my own lawyer saying that now, I call it my lawyer only in that it was my recommendation. Yeah. The person is not deceased those. So it's a trust to avoid probate. Correct. So it doesn't mean necessarily. Yeah. They don't have the trust yet, or you're trying to do the trust and the relationship with the lawyers because I pushed them in that direction.
So they don't have a title. But before that, the property was owned as an investment property by a man and wife. The wife unfortunately died just recently. So the older man who is basing dementia and is getting his affairs in order with the help of his daughter, who is my longtime client. So they love it to death.
I saw this coming and in helping them and guiding them, but now are very frustrated that they got to wait three months, especially after I've told them that I believe the market's going to change and we're getting it swamped. And we may have demands that we're gonna have. One more clarifying question.
So you when his wife died, he was entitled with her with the right of survivorship. So as long as when she passed. Okay. So it doesn't have to go through probate for him to be in control and for him to do something with the property. No, I've run into that before with a husband and wife, even though we have muniment of title here in Texas, that if there was no will.
Then all kind of all bets are off. You gotta go. You gotta go through probate anyway, even though the outcome is still the same. And in fact, the shares more, if there's more credit than just the note you on the house, you are probably not going to be able to do immune mint title either. So we had to wait.
Now we were in that case, no will debt beyond the house fact. It was a hoarder's house and went very well with all the people that I got to the party. But. We were able to put it on the market and. Not close, but be in tight, it'd be in contract with a close date several days after the hearing.
So all of that was possible and allowed us to get into the market before everyone at the end of the line knew the Gates of Disneyland. We're open. I think you gotta, we used to call it a fast, you got a fast pass, right? So you didn't have to wait line. Yeah, exactly. And that's the analogy that it really clung on.
It seems to resonate with people, but that's why I'm pushing so hard, not just for a close for bucks for us, but. Hey, let's do it fast because the market is insane right now. And again, I'm not understanding why, if I have a, will I have a survivor spouse? I dunno, maybe I need to, yeah, I know. I know. Yeah.
Bruce and Tim both have answers for you, but I think, if you hadn't referred the attorney, I would probably say. Go ahead and get the property listed. And if a contract comes along, just tell them it's going to be a protracted closing, but because you brought the attorney to the table, I think I would just call the attorney and ask her if she's accessible.
Just ask, have you done that? Have you spoken to her and ask her why? On the last one, one of the first ones I got with you guys, the last one, I had mentioned this case coming up and believe it or not, this is hilarious. She said client attorney privilege, I can't really talk to you without their permission.
I'm like, Oh, you've gotta be kidding me. I referred you and you can't talk to me about it. What I'm going through, I'm going through the grades that I just sent him an email. Please ask her or tell her you, I had permission to talk to you about it. So yeah. Even if it was a generic conversation, Hey, I referred these people to you and here's the situation and just put it to her, like you just said to us, I don't feel it's in my, I understand we may not be able to close for three or four months, but the market's so hot right now.
I don't feel like it's in our mutual client's best interest. To put this off. So would you be okay with me? Go ahead and listing the property and if we get a contract, I'll call you tell me if it's a four month closing fine and we'll give it enough time to close that. Make sure by the time we close that the trust is set up and you can use it as a vehicle to close.
I think I would just put the question to her the way you put it to us and just ask her. And again, come from that perspective that it's in the client's best interest and you're supposed to both be serving them. I, Bruce, I know you had something to, or Tim, go ahead, Tim. Yeah, I was going to say along the same lines, is that not only asked that, but say, we're always trying to do the right thing for the client and the same story that you said in your.
Your professional opinion, the market is potentially going to change. And max value is not going to be the same as it is, today in four months, potentially. And you're saying you, no, I can't. No one can predict future, but I would want to not only put it on the market and get it under contract, but also put it under market and make the point to the attorney that you want to put it under contract.
And get several backup offers because of the fact that closing is likely to be protracted based on what you said that way. You're making it really clear to the attorney. She's doing her client a disservice, and you really do know what you're doing. The backup offers will potentially seal the deal in terms of saying the right thing to the client, tell your client the same thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a clarification question, Bruce, and I'm sorry, I haven't let you. Yep. But how is it that you guys understand muniment of title? What is muniment title's supposed to do it. I thought it's supposed to get us a letter testamentary or at least a pass somehow that we can move some of these assets around, because it's a formality for the rest of probate to go through.
To be honest with you, I don't understand Munich union title. I understand what monument of title is in Texas, but, and pronunciation. It's the same thing. Yeah. I was actually kidding you from our last call on the pronunciation only because the lawyer corrected me. One is a Texas accent and one's not
No, I would just, I was just going to say the monument of, to every state virtually every state has a vehicle for carving the real estate out and allowing an early closing. So I don't think monument of title is too much different than what we do here in Florida, where you got to go get a judge's approval.
So I don't claim to completely understand the legal process, but I know it's cool. And it works. So go ahead, Chad, did you, Bruce, you had something to add. I'll first off or echo what you just said that most States have a tool. It just so happens that Texas calls there's a monument or monument, or however you pronounce it, of title.
The majority of States out there, if if it appears that there are enough assets to cover debts and taxes. Okay. Most States have a resource like that, to be able to carve real estate out. Go ahead and put it in the air's name. And then now you are dealing with what I believe and not my non, attorney.
Nope opinion here. Okay. So I've got to make sure that I get that out there. I believe that you're dealing with a beneficiary asset, so there are beneficiary assets that don't have to pass through probate. And then there are non beneficiary assets that do have to pass through probate. And if this was a husband and wife, Then, and one had a joint.
If it was joint tenancy with right of survivorship, then the ownership interest of the deceased should immediately pass without going through probate the to the surviving spouse without needing to go through probate. So it shouldn't matter. Obviously you want to check with an attorney on that?
I think that your attorney is wrong. And don't get me wrong. Some of my best referral relationships and attorney relationships. They're wrong on things. Sometimes they're not always an expert in every area. Yeah. I didn't want to, if I could just clarify in my task let's ask him. It. My understanding is that isn't really the issue.
The issue is that they're setting up a trust to avoid probate when the current owner dies and your attorney doesn't want you to do anything until the trust is completely. Set up. Is that accurate? I can totally understand how you would take that from me. So I apologize for being unclear. No, it's just something's happened in it.
And Bruce May have put his finger on it. I probably need to check because it wasn't the best property investment property that there was joint tenancy with right. Of survivorship. Because that I think can throw a car cog into it and it's they want to sell the house because this has is, he's not fully no with all his faculties yet, so they don't need to sell anything else.
It's just, this one is sitting here and they know that there's so much behind this. When the faculties are lost there, he can't manage any of the assets. So he's. The ranch, all of the properties. So they're trying to send off the ones that are, so the trust isn't in place yet. And this is more about this singular property that happened to be an investment.
And I think you guys really helped me walk through it that I need to check on that joint tenancy by the survivors. Yeah. Tim has one more followup point, Tim, go ahead. Yeah I, so let me, I heard one of the things you said earlier in the conversation is there in terms of looking at this, forgetting the specifics of all of it.
If you look at this as an estate of this man's estate, is there debt owed over and above the value you have the property nada, nothing on anything. The guy was all cash things. Okay. And also, maybe it also may be the size of the estate because I think the general guidelines I'm, my title is that under a million or less and no debt.
So anything on the property. Yeah. It could be any of those things, but the typical challenge with this is that there can be other assets. That also are lumped in with just this, a state that the court or someone else is looking at and the full muniment of title and you are pronouncing it correctly, as is indeed.
Not applicable just to the property itself. And I think I'm going to go back to what I said earlier. You really need to, because it's something that may come up more often as property values go up and other stuff like that, sit down with an attorney and pick them apart until the right answer about why it's not a doable deal, because you don't have all the facts.
Yeah. And funny, I tried to sit down with the attorneys, but I think it will be easier after COVID they, they didn't even know how to do a zoom call. Anyway offer to buy an hour of their time on the telephone, but yeah, you got it. You're doing, you got to do this and get it done.
And I realize you're trying, and you're, I'm not rebuking your effort, but the answer to this is that we can't give you the legal advice. We w we don't do that anyway, but more importantly, the attorney is the one that you've already got a relationship with, and you're doing the referral side.
Yeah, demand that you get better answers out of them and say, look, I don't even give me a good as a hypothetical in another circumstance. If here were the circumstances, what would we do and what are the issues and make it so that you phrased it back to them that they're not playing with attorney client privilege, who is a consult.
Okay. Good. Good. And then last comment by, we do have five in the queue, so we can wrap this up, but Bruce has one last comment. Go ahead, Bruce. So I was just going to tell you that I'm on board with the attorney in this regard, assuming that the that is not with right of survivorship, it's hard to carve anything out.
If letters of testamentary haven't even been given. Yeah, because who's going to be the person that carves that out. If it's not a PR that's received their letters yet. So if this is not a right of survivorship asset then I'm gonna, I'm gonna err, on the side of going with the attorney that you really have to wait until those have been given.
I think I need to have a conversation with her to really pin this down a conversation with another attorney. I have seven or eight attorneys that refer me. And if I were to ask this question, I'd probably have five of them all come up with the same answer and two that would give me different answers.
So just because they went through law school and they helped. Set up trusts and estates and do probate doesn't mean that they're going to always agree a hundred percent of the time. So always have a few build, build relationship with a few other attorneys somehow. All right. Great. Thanks so much.
Perfect, complicated and interesting case. I appreciate you bringing it to the table. Next up is phone number ending in zero zero five five. You're up next. Hello. Nice gentlemen.
Marker [00:25:00] Mike here, I got a question for you. I know Chad is working on a, on, on, on a new version of the mastery and but, and if this is already answered somewhere on a video or something, please put them in a direction, but this is a general asset protection question.
And and just to tell you my setup, obviously I'm doing this, this stuff, family transitions type business, but is it really a business I'm not really earning anything I'm really helping bring together. And I'm it's really a marketing piece to figure out how I can best serve an estate.
So what I've done is I have this subchapter S Corporation. I filed a DBA and I put the name of the the family transitions thing there. I also did that for my my house, with the company to which, which will either take proc, title and either the management company or a couple of other LLCs if I ever do take some in a flip.
So my question to you is. What more should I be doing if for this family transitions business, do I need more than a DBA if I'm not really generating income and having really expenses? It, what's your suggestions? Any ideas I'll take a first shot at that. The one thing I would tell you is that, yeah, I'm sorry, Bruce.
One thing I would tell you is that. We, as we said, on the earlier call, giving you legal and financial advices, we'll give you some general advice. The first part of this is if you don't have an asset to protect, then you don't need, going to worry about it too badly.
If you're not taking a lot of money. And however you need to also look at liability as well. And certainly the one question I would ask you is if you're growing your businesses and all of that, have you looked into any kind of liability insurance? Let's start there. Have you done that? No. Okay. So you, if you're going to be dealing with anything like that, where you've got money coming in and all of that, we want to just make sure that you're, you're covering your backside.
You want to get the right advice to do that. There's a company out there called Hiscock A I S, C O C K, or A I S. K O K H I S. K O K. They're one of the less expensive ones out there and they offer some good inexpensive, single proprietor kinds of insurance. So that's one thing to look at. The other part of it is that you need to be really careful about your potential tax considerations.
And the reality is that if you're doing this and doing it well, you are going to take money in and you need to get advice from your own tax planner or your own CPA and all that sort of stuff. They will also likely direct you to. An attorney for the same things. We're pretty religious about saying you need to be making sure that you've got all your T's crossed and I's dotted in your local marketplace because we have no clue what local issues apply.
And you've got to get a better answer and I'm going to back to the earlier caller, the same kind of deal, establish a great relationship with an attorney that you can bounce, any kind of questions like this off. Cause they can quickly. Give you the answer and I'm going to camp on Bruce's. You get more than one opinion because you will likely get multiple answers and you need to, it's like everybody thinks doctors are religious figures and they are, but they're human beings and people have opinions about things.
There are certain basics, but you need to get as much info as you can. And you're doing the right thing by making sure you've got your act together, but ask the right people in your market. Sure. I appreciate that answer. So I'm going to give you three different answers and they're not necessarily answers, but number one is to the attorney.
Cause you are building a family transitions and a probate side of your business and doing that. You need good estate. Planning attorneys and probate attorneys. It's interesting that a lot of business planning attorneys also are either directly partnered with, especially the smaller wins or or have also do estate planning.
So the first thing that I would do to help answer your question is tell you to go look up someone who is a business planning attorney, and look specifically to see if they're a mid-sized small practice also does estate planning, or if they specifically do a state planning, two of my business attorneys in my market are also estate planning attorneys, and those are the two things that they do.
They. I don't want to say that they go hand in hand, but a lot of times you can kill two birds with one stone. You can get your business set up properly and you can establish a great relationship with that probate and estate planning attorney. The next thing that I was going to say is. As much as you want to do this, I want to cost you in you.
And I'm going to caution you because I hear this from a thousand different people all the time. A lot of people ask these questions and sometimes worrying about how you're going to set things up. Can slow you up from the actual money producing activity of picking the phone up and sending the letters out.
So don't let. Your cells get bogged down and the legal aspects of this or the aspects of setting up the perfect LLC. Yes, it should be done, but it's something that can be added in after you're really rolling with your business. So cart before the horse a little bit potentially. And then the last thing I was going to do is I was just going to throw in a a little Plug for Hiscox insurance as well.
Tim spelled it wrong though. H I S C O X. They offer great liability and errors and omissions insurance. And I think that's probably one of the first things that you should really get. Beautiful now you, so I've got three hats aware. One is a realtor and I don't, I do things in my own personal name if I'm getting a commission.
And then there's the. Investor side of things, which I usually have a an LLC or, taking title. And then there's the property management side, which is really not a very big things business, really. You think his hit this Cox? Can I have the conversation with them?
They can help me out with all three of those. Yeah. Two I go through. Yeah. Alrighty. And and that was great advice by the way. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to find guys who do the estate planning that also, because ideally, I want to learn about trusts in terms of putting things in land trusts for asset protection, when I'm flipping homes or buying homes or rentals and Over here in New Jersey, not a whole lot of them know about that.
So you can find an estate attorney, a business attorney, and they'll, they'll look at you like a deer in headlights when you start talking about, Hey, I want to structure my flips and my real estate investing with this. And they don't know. So that's I'm sure there's somebody out there, but I'm keep, I'm still looking for, Hey, set up rule real estate attorney can do that.
I'm sorry. What'd you say, Bruce? A real estate attorney can help you with that as well. Obviously, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Go ahead. I'm sorry. We're stepping off. Stepping on each other call I was going to say is if you'll send a request in to support at all the leads we have possible we're in Jersey yard, in ocean County.
Okay. So send a thing into support. And asked for a referral to someone in notion County that can help you. I may have somebody that I can point you right. To do that in Jersey. Sure. It could be ocean County could be mamas County. I'm a little flexible with that. And the answer you Bruce know that they, the real estate attorneys don't, that's what I was saying.
I have not found one. I love it doing this for awhile. I've not found one of them that, that knows about land trusts. So it's just it's challenging. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking this question, but thanks. Thanks so much guys. And I'm going to send that, I'm going to reach out to his Cox and I'm going to also send that email to support and thanks so much for that feedback.
Thank you, Michael. Appreciate it. We've got two more in the queue guys. We can probably have a couple more jump in, just hit star six and then hit pound. Or is it star six and hit one star six and it would next up is phone number ending in six five one one. You're up next. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Loud and clear.
Okay. All right. Very good. You have a question for you. We are,
Marker [00:32:45] I joined all the leads back at the end of 2016 and we have. Paid for a bunch of leads back in that last month. And then through 2017, but I was talking to support this morning and I was going, gosh, it'd be nice to go out and bring all those old leads back into this new platform that you have.
So my question is, and I've got about let's see, 927 full contacts. Two, primarily 2017. Is it worth running those through probate plus?
So when you say bring them back in terms of, are you saying just to get them to go ahead and run them through probate plus? Or is that your point? Yeah, so I've got 927 leads from four years ago or three years ago. Is it worth going ahead? And I've got them in the database. Is it worth running them through probate plus to see what when you get done?
Yeah. So here's the answer to your question. Thanks. Don't do them all. We could, we'd be happy to take more of your money. That's not the answer. Don't do them all go back and take the. Newest of the old, in other words, go back about a year and run those through and look and see what you get out of that.
And once that's done, you may decide to back up another year and do that. I think maybe four years out, you might get some interesting historical perspective, but. That may be a little older even than we would recommend, but I don't know what's going on in your market. It's hard to say, but don't do them all at once.
I don't want you to, spend a whole bunch of money and then be disappointed with the results, but do them a year back is a really good idea. Yeah. I was going to suggest something similar for me. This is Steven, right? Steven, correct? Yup. Yeah, for me, the sweet spot is one to two years old. I do exceptionally well.
Buying and flipping houses in the one to two year Mark. I don't know that I've tried to go back to, three or four. And I'm, I agree with what Tim said, start with the newer ones first, but I also would say, it just depends on your budget and what kind of ROI you're looking for. To do all of them would be about $1,800, but if you got, I don't know what your average profit is.
If you've got one deal out of it, It may be worth it. I suspect there are some in the three to four year old group, it might be 1%, in the one to two year old group. Maybe it's 5%. So your, your risk reward ratio is going to be better with the one to two than the three and four, but I'm not sure depending on what your budget is and your appetite, for how much business do you want and how much you're willing to spend it.
I wouldn't definitely say don't do them all. I think Tim's suggestion of do the. Do the one or two first. And then if you get any kind of results, use that profit to fund the three and four year olds. It's I don't think it's ever a bad idea. There, there are some people there that, have put it off and now they're tired of being landlords.
They finally. Have come to a consensus with the family, the sister that was living there has moved on, there's all kinds of issues. Why people wait a long time to do something. So anyway, it's not, there's no cut and dry the answer, but just depending on what you're looking to accomplish and how much you want to spend, Bruce, you had something you wanted to add.
Yeah. I'm also going to tie it to letters. So if you're going to go back through and you're going to Mark it to even your four year old bleeds, and you were, if you were going to send letters to those as well then you know, it might not necessarily be worth it if you're just going to send one or two letters to that list, but if you're going to do three letters actually it might be worth it.
Even with two, if you're going to do mail on top of it, then it would pay for itself just in the people that you were able to cut out of the list. The only thing that I would add to what Tim and Jim said is it depends on whether you're also going to do mail to the, to those lists. And if you are, if you're going to do two or three letters by all means, I think it's worth it.
It'll save you money. Yeah. But I, yeah, and I hear what all of you said and go back to what tends to suggest was, I guess we just take that first group of leads and see how that kind of works out, but okay. Makes sense to me. Perfect. All right. Appreciate it. Keep working. The old leads, the beginning of the call, we said, work the newbie.
We got an example of work of the doulas, but a week doesn't go by that. We don't preach to you guys. How valuable the older leads are. You've got zero. When you get beyond the year there, you've got zero competition. Probably when you get beyond six to nine months, there's nobody else. That's still in touch with these people.
We only have one more person in the queue. I don't think we've ever ended one of these calls early. So please hit star six and hit one and jump in. There we go. We got three now. Next up is phone number ending in zero five, one six. You're up next.
Marker [00:37:22] Great. I am in the Austin, Texas area. So my lead that I spoke to yesterday, it was eighties.
His son passed away a 29. The father and son were both on the title, but the father does not live in that house. So it's empty right now. There's no will no children. There is an ex-wife, who's empty the house out already. And according to the father that I spoke to last night, he said, the attorney says nothing can be done with the property until it goes to probate fully.
So I did hear the earlier call of someone in a. Not the same, but I understand there's something called muniment of title. Now. Is there any additional suggestions you'd give me other than what you gave the previous caller, first of all, what state are you in? Austin, Texas. Oh, okay. So yeah, the minimum title does apply.
Okay, great. Bruce suggestions. Yeah. There's no but the father is on the title, yeah. It depends whether it's a beneficiary asset or not. And whether there's right of survivorship. I know I'm just parroting what we said earlier. The reality. Is it's pretty rare. I always hate disagreeing with attorneys because most of the time I just don't I'll go with what they say, but in this particular case, I don't, I just don't understand.
Even if it wasn't a beneficiary asset, even if it did have to go. Into probate into and through probate are two completely different things. And you can almost always with a few exceptions, almost always sell an asset while it's in probate, as long as the money isn't distributed to the heirs. If the attorney is saying that the that you can't even list or sell the asset while it's in probate, 99% of the time.
That's not going to be the case. Now I can't speak to this individual, the circumstances around this deal, but you might want to bounce it off of another attorney. Just as a of I did research. Oh, I'm sorry. I did research the attorney and he's under commercial real estate. He's not, he doesn't list probate anywhere on his website.
So it may not be something he specializes in. Yeah. Yeah, I would go, I would ask another attorney or ask the client if they're willing to talk with another attorney, that would probably be the better the better thing to do is have the client talk with another attorney that specifically does estates and probate.
Cool. Cool. Cool. All right, come back and let us know when you get the deal together. Thank you, Michelle. Awesome. Thank you. Perfect. The last person now in the queue and we do have room for more star six and hit one. But right now the last one in the queue is phone number ending in one, five, eight, three.
Marker [00:39:48]Hey what's up? I have two questions for y'all. You got 12 minutes. So go ahead and ask three. You got plenty of time. I was trying to, I'm going to Atlanta, Georgia area. And my first question, when I'm on the phone and after I get through my probate pitch and then they I've been noticing a lot of them lately.
Stop me and just say sir, can you please tell me what you want? Then they screws me up cause I was trying, so what do I want, I wanna buy the property that gets split. So what do I want? So yeah, they tells me that when they saved him, they be like, yes, sir. So what do you want? Yeah, Travis, I would say that that you're most likely. When we run into that, your elevator pitch, your introduction probably is getting a little long-winded. You've been on these calls before and you and I have talked before and wouldn't normally tend to think that you're reasonably concise.
But if they're interrupting you and you're getting that frequently, then I would revisit that introduction and that pre, that pitch that you give and see if you can shorten it and make it more understandable. I work with a lot of people who get just confusing. And if I'm talking to you and I know that we're role-playing, and I know what you do when I start to even ask myself, what's this guy do again, then you know that the PR is going to be asking themselves that so revisit that I would highly encourage you to get a audio recording software for yourself.
Something like audacity or something like that. It's free. Record yourself and then listen to yourself and specifically watch how long it takes you to do that introduction to that greeting. And the the other thing that I would really highly recommend is if you do get interrupted, because it happens to everybody, no matter how concise your pitches.
If you do get interrupted, I would practice an active listening technique where you basically just repeat in your own words, not the exact same way that they've asked, but in your own words, repeat what they've asked and then say, it sounds like you really want me to get to the point, right?
Of course, they're going to say yes. And then you go to do that, I guess I probably ought to tell you why I do what I do. Could I do that? So you ask permission to tell them why. So they have. Explicitly now, given you permission to go straight to the heart of the matter. And that's when I would say the way I put food on my table is by selling real estate.
Ultimately that's what feeds my family. But I also know that when you're going through probate, A lot of times, that's the last thing on your mind. You're still dealing with the state sales and property out, gutter cleaning and grass cutting and all these different things. And that's why I want to offer you my complimentary service of basically quarterbacking all those other responsibilities.
And then I hope that if you ever got to the point where you're going to sell a house, that we could have a conversation about that too. Okay. I don't want to leave. I don't go there until someone has essentially asked me to go there or has given me permission to go there. Okay. Because I know that the same lady who said that she, I asked her, I couldn't tell her what I wanted.
So see if I can follow me. She actually hung up on me and she's on COVID I'm out, hung up. Then when she hung up, I said, wow. So I called back, I called right back. I said ma'am, I don't really know what happened, but it seems like our phone got disconnected. And then she's there. I said, why are you so angry?
And then she said sir, I'm not angry. It just, I don't know what you want. Then we asked to talk like 20 minutes. Okay. Get a good why statement. So some, so get a good why statement that shows exactly what you get out of the deal. That's the biggest thing. If they don't know what you get out of the deal, the longer they go questioning themselves or questioning your motives, the less they trust you.
And the more credibility you're ruining. So get a good why statement. That explains what you get out of it and get a good why statement. That explains what you're willing to do in order to earn the right to do the real estate deal. Ain't no, you're a hundred percent right over half of them. I talked to, they'd be trying to figure out how you get paid.
You get paid somehow. So you right by the way. All right. Second question. I'm in the middle of a deal right now that I have on the contract. But now the brother is a sibling. He's a sibling that the mother had two houses. She left the brother and a sister one. I'm buying the sister house.
She's the person that representative. But the brother, the brother he's not on bullet he's. I want him to talk. He don't want to look my way. He's not on bullying. You're not answering my phone. What do I need? How can I get out and get this to him?
All right. I need you to recap the situation for me one more time. Sorry, everybody. I got lost there. I will laugh. I said I have a property currently on contract and the personal representative. She, the personal representative has a brother and the mother had two houses. She left one to the personal rep, which is a solicitor, and went to the brother, the assistant rubbish.
And they the dad, the children now the sister house, the mother left her. I have hers on the contract, the brother, he's a sibling. I'm trying to reach out to him, talk with him and getting them both on board. So we can know, finish the process out. I can't reach him. He's not answering my phone and he don't want to talk to me.
Is he ignoring you or do you know that he doesn't want to talk to you, but yeah. Yeah, actually I did talk to him once and when I talked to him last month and what was going on, I know he was very silent and now he's a Norman. Yeah. He's not meaning anything. He just ignore me. Yeah. All right. That, I'm not telling you to give up on him, do not give up on him, but you don't have rapport and you need to just work on gradually and politely following up.
Be persistent, but don't be annoying. The more you push for it, the more he's going to ignore you. If he could just be super busy and dealing with other things and not thinking about you, that's probably what the case is. And he might be intentionally blowing you off. If he's intentionally blowing you off, you're not gonna convince him.
I could give you the best argument in the world. And. It wouldn't necessarily work. We don't know which one of those it is. Just. Treat him just like any other lead that's in your list. That's never answered the phone. Keep sure. Delicately following up once a month, once every three weeks whatever you choose and and be polite about it, say, look, it sounds to me like you probably don't want to sell the house.
If that's right, please just give me a call back and let me know. But if selling the house is something that you might want to do in the future I'd love to talk with you and all I really wants to be included in that conversation. If you do. And Travis. Was going to add you are the brother and sister in pretty good terms with each other as far as yeah. It was. So as far as I know, I talked to the sister every day when I talked to her, she just says that a hundred brother not mad, but they don't really talk. And the sister, do you, are you buying the house or did you list it and sell it? Yeah, I'm buying it as a cash. A cash deal. Okay. Yeah, I might just say to her, Hey, I just want to make sure that you're pretty happy with my service so far.
Would you mind do me a favor, like putting in a good word with your brother? I haven't been able to get through to him cause I can do the same thing for him. Use her as a satisfied past client. See if she'd reach out to the brother. She may or may not be willing to do it, but if she's happy with the job you're doing and you've done everything you promised.
You may have better luck, getting in the side door then trying to kick it in, kick the front door in yourself. Okay. Hi. It sounds you make sense now, what was that free service you say about the recording? What was the name of it? Oh, just there, there are a million of them out there. One that's good is audacity.
Another good one is just script. Audacity. Okay. And another good one is called descript, which also gives you a transcription as well. It lets you delete words out of the transcription. It'll take the audio out. You're really doing this for yourself though, so that you can hear yourself and understand if you're getting too long-winded and you've got to think critically and ask yourself is what I'm doing.
Is it clear? Is it concise? And am I losing people? And the best way to do that is to listen to yourself. Okay, sounds good. All right. Appreciate it, Travis, and go. It never fails. We've had six people jumping the queue in the last three minutes. We got time for one more today, guys. You other five.
If you need help don't wait until next week. Just reach out to firstname.lastname@example.org and one of us will call you back personally. So last up in the queue this week is phone number ending in six, six, eight, seven Europe. Last. Hey, can you hear me? Yes, sir.
Marker [00:48:01] Okay. So this may be a little bit different.
I'm in Ohio and we actually have not sure if you're all familiar with it. So I'll ask first, are you all familiar with the 80% rule where a property goes in the probate and once it's sold, it has to sell for 80% of the appraised value or in the counties of value. Let me ask you a question because that's something that, obviously things like that vary from state to state, but that usually only applies if there, if it's a corner court appointed executor, is, does that, is that if there is a, if there is a executor named in the will, does that also apply not up there as an executor name and then the wheel, but there is a PR.
Or wielding. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, it's the same thing in California that you have to get court authority if it's not, if the PR gets involved, if there's someone named in the will, you're good. It doesn't apply. If if the courts involved, then they do, they have an overbid process in California.
So I'm not familiar. We're not familiar specifically with Ohio but that's pretty, that's not unusual in quite a few States around the country. So what's your question. My question was I've had quite a few properties where I haven't been able to get around that, that 80%. So I was just gonna ask if they were
around that. So you're trying to buy the property. You're an investor. Yes. I'm going to buy that property. So that's most of the time when I. When I go and look at them, they're not worth the 8%, so we have to offer less. And the only reason I'm even bringing this up is because I actually just got some misinformation yesterday that I'm actually trying to a fight with the well, not fight, but trying to bring up to the attorney because they told the PR that they could not sell the property while it was in probate.
It had to be over with. And when I heard you all say that, I was like, so I'm wondering if you all know about this. So that's why I'm asking th this is going to sound a little flip and I'm half kidding, but just specialize in properties that have a will and executors. I did, y'all have that problem with Kevin.
Give us that you have it. It's not too much, unlike a short sale. Sometimes what work is, do a good job. Maybe spend a hundred bucks and have a comprehensive inspection done and send a list of everything that's wrong to the executor. If you think it's worth or documented yourself, go through the property because it's not just, they're probably looking at comps and a computer and, maybe help them help the court come to the conclusion that it's, that your 70% offers is a pretty good one.
And any other ideas for how we can get around that. No, I would just repeat what you just said. There I've had several fiduciaries assigned to deals that I worked and once the fiduciary is assigned, it depends where they're getting their appraisal number is it's just off of a computer algorithm.
Then you could provide a different appraisal and have a shot at it, getting it. But if they got an appraisal. They're going to have to see proof that that it's not going to sell for 80% and I would just get my offer in and and then resubmit it, if it doesn't go for the 80% plus. So you might need to submit your offer a few times.
But once that process has started, it's hard to get it out. If you find out that. It is a single offer. And they've either gotten a BPO or they're just pulling comps in the marketplace. I think if you ask her directly into the whoever the administrator is, I look at into, we're trying to get the thing done and we definitely want to go do this.
And. Is there an alternative, is there an opportunity to look for a different appraisal on the property? Sometimes they can accept a substitute BPO or, just generally a substitute appraisal. And if they want to work with you, they will, they'll find a way to get this. Then one other thing that just occurred to me.
One of, one of the things that just occurred to me, it sounds like you're a buy and flip. But if you could find an end-user, you could, if your margin is tighter, if you need to buy for 70 and you can only get it for 80, you might be able to. Wholesale it to to somebody else for, for 92, an owner occupant, even some of the wholesalers out there will pay 90% and they try to find somebody that'll pay close to market value.
So you might want to find a, either a wholesaler or, try to find it in buyer. If it's worth your trouble, it's obviously cutting your margin down, but it also, if you don't actually have to close on it, it cuts down the amount of work you have to do to get paid. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And I appreciate all that. I was just curious. I didn't know if maybe you guys just had a one, two, three, four, Hey, try this. And that'll get me through the door, but I appreciate all the help. All right, sir. We appreciate each and every one of you, we appreciate we wanna thank all of you for showing up today.
I want to particularly thank those that actively participated, and I want to challenge each of you. Take one, thought one idea. One thing that inspired you on this call, go out and put it into practice and come back next Thursday and share your results with the group. Be productive, be safe, and we will talk to you the same time.
Next Thursday, everybody.